Crap Code Inevitable? Rumblings from ACCU. 390
I gave the opening Keynote at ACCU 2009 on Wednesday. It was entitled: The Birth of Craftsmanship. Nicolai Josuttis finshed the day with the closing keynote: Welcome Crappy Code – The Death of Code Quality. It was like a blow to the gut.
In my keynote I attempted to show the historical trajectory that has led to the emergence of the software craftsmanship movement. My argument was that since the business practices of SCRUM have been widely adopted, and since teams who follow those practices but do not follow the technical practices of XP experience a relentless decrease in velocity, and since that decrease in velocity is exposed by the transparency of scrum, then if follows that the eventual adoption of those technical XP practices is virtually assured. My conclusion was that Craftsmanship was the “next big thing” (tm) that would capture the attention of our industry for the next few years, driven by the business need to increase velocity. (See Martin Fowler’s blog on Flaccid Scrum) In short, we are on a trajectory towards a higher degree of professionalism and craftsmanship.
Nicolai’s thesis was the exact opposite of mine. His argument was that we are all ruled by marketing and that businesses will do whatever it takes to cut costs and increase revenue, and therefore businesses will drive software quality inexorably downward. He stipulated that this will necessarily create a crisis as the defect rates and deadline slips increased, but that all attempts to improve quality would be short lived and followed by a larger drive to decrease quality even further.
Josuttis’ talk was an hour of highly depressing rhetoric couched in articulate delivery and brilliant humor. One of the more memorable moments came when he playacted how a manger would respond to a developer’s plea to let them write clean code like Uncle Bob says. The manager replies: “I don’t care what Uncle Bob says, and if you don’t like it you can leave and take Uncle Bob with you.”
One of the funnier moments came when Josuttis came up with his rules for crap code, one of which was “Praise Copy and Paste”. Here he showed the evolution of a module from the viewpoint of clean code, and then from the viewpoint of copy-paste. His conclusion, delivered with a lovely irony, was the the copy-paste solution was more maintainable because it was clear which code belonged to which version.
It was at this point that I thought that this whole talk was a ribald joke, an elaborate spoof. I predicted that he was about to turn the tables on everyone and ringingly endorse the craftsmanship movement.
Alas, it was not so. In the end he said that he was serious about his claims, and that he was convinced that crap code would dominate our future. And then he gave his closing plea which went like this:
We finally accepted that requirements change, and so we invented Agile.
We must finally accept that code will be crap and so we must ???
He left the question marks on the screen and closed the talk.
This was like a blow to the gut. The mood of the conference changed, at least for me, from a high of enthralled geekery, to depths of hoplessness and feelings of futile striving against the inevitable. Our cause was lost. Defeat was imminent. There was no hope.
Bulls Bollocks!
To his credit, there are a few things that Josuttis got right. There is a lot of crap code out there. And there is a growing cohort of crappy coders writing that crap code.
But the solution to that is not to give up and become one of them. The solution to that is to design our systems so that they don’t require an army of maintainers slinging code. Instead we need to design our systems such that the vast majority of changes can be implemented in DSLs that are tuned to business needs, and do not require “programmers” to maintain.
The thing that Josuttis got completely wrong, in my mildly arrogant opinion, is the notion that low quality code is cheaper than high quality code. Low quality code is not cheaper; it is vastly more expensive, even in the short term. Bad code slows everyone down from the minute that it is written. It creates a continuous and copious drag on further progress. It requires armies of coders to overcome that drag; and those armies must grow exponentially to maintain constant velocity against that drag.
This strikes at the very heart of Josuttis’ argument. His claim that crappy code is inevitable is based on the notion that crappy code is cheaper than clean code, and that therefore businesses will demand the crap every time. But it has generally not been business that has demanded crappy code. Rather it has been developers who mistakenly thought that the business’ need for speed meant that they had to produce crappy code. Once we, as professional developers, realize that the only way to go fast is to create clean and well designed code, then we will see the business’ need for speed as a demand for high quality code.
My vision of the future is quite different from Josuttis’. I see software developers working together to create a discipline of craftsmanship, professionalism, and quality similar to the way that doctors, lawyers, architects, and many other professionals and artisans have done. I see a future where team velocities increase while development costs decrease because of the steadily increasing skill of the teams. I see a future where large software systems are engineered by relatively small teams of craftsmen, and are configured and customized by business people using DSLs tuned to their needs.
I see a future of Clean Code, Craftsmanship, Professionalism, and an overriding imperative for Code Quality.
I think he is right in a way – developers don’t value quality because their employers don’t value quality. But they should, because as you said, quality becomes cheaper almost immediately.
I for one embrace quality, craftsmanship and professionalism because that is the path that makes me happy. If I delivered shoddy work in the name of expeniency (and at times I have) I would lose my self-respect.
It sounds like Josuttis needs a holiday.
Bob,
I immediately signed to the “Manifesto for Software Craftmanship”, which I just discovered.
I believe most developers are not familiar with the concept of Technical Debt and how procrastinating refactoring will only slow you down more and more.
I so much hope your vision of the future is the right one…
I think you’re misrepresenting Nico’s argument. What he said was that the people who ‘control’ the development process think that crappy code is cheaper.
I think you’re right when claiming crappy code is “vastly more expensive, even in the short term”. But it’s easy to write tests that make crappy code pass. So crappy code can be made to look cheap.
And it’s difficult to test the tests, to prove that the tests will weed out the crappy code.
But I doubt adding a layer of indirection (ie. DSL) will increase code quality. I predict a DSL, any DSL, will eventually be maintained into a general purpose language, but with only one purpose, the application it is embedded in. At that point (or possibly even before), maintaining the DSL will demand more effort than maintaining the application.
M.
Fantastic post, as usual, uncleBob. I think the two main impediments to code quality are a) lack of sufficient number of craftsmen—people who can show and prove it can be done with better quality and in reasonable time, and b) management (some of whom were once developers of some sort) don’t really appreciate the importance of code quality.
It was indeed a sad day earlier this week when I heard that you can’t expect everyone to read books and learn NOT UML, not design principles, NOT design patterns, but basic OOPS! And yes, we were NOT talking about freshmen out of college, but about people with a few years experience under the belt.
As long as we have such crappy benevolent attitude towards study (which is mandatory to become a good developer and eventually crafstman some day) and code quality, bad developers can thrive and continue to write crappy code. Of course it might be convenient for the blame to be fixed on them when the inevitable mishap happens, but that blaming occurs after the fact.
Earlier this week @venkat_s talked in the local Agile group about the circles of Relevancy (for the business) and Expectation (unit and other testing that assures code quality), and how the former cannot exist forever without the latter. However, what happens in reality is, most of the time, the management is worried only about the first circle, and in their mad rush to meet the deadlines, they allow the code quality to go for a toss.
The more years I spend in this industry the more I am convinced that you need real good programmers in the middle management to run the show if quality has to remain important, or we need non-programming who believe in the vision or ex-programmer managers who wouldn’t mind coding today if required. The best part of the deal for the management is that they don’t have to spend the weekends maintaining the bad code, the lowly developers are there to do that. They just have to give the orders on Fri evening to ensure the team is working over the weekend.
Though this comment post starts to appear like a rant, I guess there is lots of truth in it, at least from an Indian perspective.
Surely the people who ‘control’ the development process think that whatever they perceive to be quicker is quicker. If that perception is based on time to first delivery (for example) and that is quicker through clean code than through crappy code they will not press for crappy code. It is down to professionals to maintain the quality and the momentum that creates. I believe that the time to first delivery of any non-trivial system will be quicker done clean if the developers are “craftsmen” and “craftswomen”.
Surely the people who ‘control’ the development process think that whatever they perceive to be quicker is quicker. If that perception is based on time to first delivery (for example) and that is quicker through clean code than through crappy code they will not press for crappy code. It is down to professionals to maintain the quality and the momentum that creates. I believe that the time to first delivery of any non-trivial system will be quicker done clean if the developers are “craftsmen” and “craftswomen”.
I must confess that as I read your comments on Josuttis I flipped the bozo bit. I flipped it on Josuttis. Low quality is always driven out of the market place eventually. Low quality breaks trust between buyer and seller. Once broken it takes a long track record of quality to recover. Take a look at General Motors. I would claim the opposite: Quality is inevitable.
Marketing pressure to ship crappy code can only be applied in areas where there are financial imperatives to do so. You could argue that, in some companies (cough Symantec cough Corel cough) we may already be there. I won’t mention Vista (more than that one time) because it’s just too easy.
Enterprise developers have, in their capacity as the underwater element of the iceberg, and only for the most part, been delivering crappy code for ever. I’m one of them and I see plenty. Heck, I wrote a lot of it when I didn’t know better. Now I know when I’m writing crap, which is at least a start in the right direction…
Open source software, on the other hand, doesn’t suffer from the same need to feed the children/dogs/hamsters/crack habit. Will we then see OSS becoming the home of quality software, and paid-for being hived off to the niche? I’m wondering how that world might be different to today’s one and what would have to happen tfor that to be the case. Could, for example, an OSS OS be built that could replace Windows (or OSX) on the average person’s computer? There’s nothing out there at present that seems to fit that particular bill.
Fun times.
Rob said “Quality is inevitable.“
You haven’t watched much TV lately, have you? :*)
M.
To use a metaphor: sometimes a customer wants a Fiat instead of a Ferrari so why should the Fiat car builders use the same build process and quality control as used in the Ferrari factory. Sometimes the customer has only money for the Fiat and wants it build in less time than it would take to build a Ferrari. Sometimes the customer does not mind that the Fiat goes slower or accerelates slower than a Ferrari because it is good enough.
I agree that software quality is important but we should stop trying to find the holy grail of software development.
Having these discussions just shows how immature our world of Software Development really is.
The real answer is: it depends.
It depens on what the customer wants and what they are willing to pay for as long as they are aware of the implications of having a specific degree of software quality.
We do not need to much developers producing to much code – we may need few developers producing the right code …
Coming from a 1000+ employee corporation with several national offices, Mr. Josuttis’s comments sound spot-on to me. The business decision-makers do not comprehend the process of technology – they want to see implementations that produce revenue. They don’t really care how that happens.
Blaming developers for writing crap code is to ignore the context in which they find themselves. They make the best of vague and incomplete requirements demanded on an unreasonable schedule.
In a better economy, these developers would move on and that may cost the company. In the long run, the technical debt will cost the company, but they’ll never see it that way.
Short-term thinking is the name of the game. One solution is for developers to go consultant and sell their services back to these companies. Same work – process control shifts in favor of the developers.
I wonder how bad does it have to get before the business wake up.
I have just come from a bank in which it is standard practice and expected that a project will require a small army of people to maintain it once its gone live. eg 10 people build the project and 120 maintain it – I am not joking!
Even when bad code results in multi million dollar mistakes the business do not put pressure on IT to improve quality.
Even when a high quality system is delivered that shows no bugs in production for months, nobody wakes up and says, “how did they do that, can we have more of that please!”.
High quality code is not more expensive and does not take longer to produce. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
If I ever accept that crappy code is inevitable, please fire me. Mr. Josuttis got it miserably wrong!
Even though I am at the core a bleeding heart liberal, I do believe in the market and incentives. So this leads me to think, “A lot of crap code exists, what are the incentives that support this.” We have to look at the incentives.
As a mid-level to senior developer, I have seen some incentives for producing crap. Incentives to individual programmers, read bonuses, are often based on “meeting” the ship date. Uncle Bob argues, and I agree, that there is an ethical imperative to deliver quality code. However, as I am human, I am sure that I am influenced by the prevailing incentives. Sure the technical manager can influence the distribution of the bonus pool, but often this pool only exists if the ship date is met. And with the short-term focus of such incentives, often the “shortcuts” taken are not apparent until after the “incentive” distributions. The design debt is real, but often the payment comes due later.
Now I am trying to not just whine about this, I am seeking answers to the questions that I believe Mr Josuttis was really asking; at least this is the question I am asking. Not “We must finally accept that code will be crap and so we must ???”, but “organizations don’t seem to value solid code, how do we convince them.” And with the incentives that I see in the marketplace, I am convinced that they do not value solid code.
Just curious and in the Dennis Miller vein, “Of course, that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.”
Gabriel said: Sometimes the customer does not mind that the Fiat goes slower or accerelates slower than a Ferrari because it is good enough.
True, but we seem to be in a situation where its acceptable to have a van of mechanics following the fiat down the road to repair it when it crashes every 5 km, taking out a pedestrian or two.
I don’t think its a question of us trying to find a holy grail, but simply having a basic level of quality. It is never acceptable to deliver software that crashes or is full of bugs that could have been avoided at no extra cost.
What if the Ferrari were cheaper than the Fiat, both to buy and then to maintain? Which would you choose then?
Design metaphors (such as the architecture of buildings or a production line of cars) for software creation may be (have been?) useful for some purposes we must know when to let go of the metaphor because it just doesn’t fit for the purposes we are applying.
Gabriel, the metaphor for a Fiat and a Ferrari doesn’t work very well given your “it depends” claim at the bottom of your comment.
A Fiat and a Ferrari are built w/quality, but they have different product goals so they are built differently, and for different total cost. If our software is like a car, I would think the customer would want a quality car rather than a lemon that has to go in the shop every few days, regardless of whether it was a Fiat or a Ferrari.
I agree with Andy K. This is just another example of common short term thinking. Maybe some of the managers figure that they won’t be around when the application needs to be re-written because it becomes too expensive or too slow to maintain and change. I suspect they figure that this will be someone else’s watch – so they don’t own it and don’t mind that the company now must spend millions to replace the application. How these managers are measured also impact how they will behave – if they are measured on short term results (like faster delivery) and not long term results (like maintainable applications) I can forecast how they will act. Overall, it reminds me of the recent advertisements that Honda has on TV now – they are encouraging customers to look at total cost of ownership before they buy.
If managers were measured on long term: 1. Customer satisfaction 2. Velocity (how many story points delivered) 3. Cost per story point 4. Bugs/quality 5. Technical debt we might see some change in behavior. Unfortunately, many managers are willing to build up a huge technical debt that will be someone else’s problem.
A lot of this is driven by current management culture. A manager with “problems” (like technical debt) must be a bad manager, so those managers don’t want open and honest discussions around these problems. This tends to hid problems until they can’t be hidden any longer – instead of exposing the problems and engaging the organization to fix them before they are un-fixable.
I’d be happy if we got to the point where most developers could at least recognize crappy code.
I’m surprised that anyone that’s spent significant time in the industry could advocate for crappy code. As someone above pointed out, you can and should produce quality code all the time. If you have a tight timeline, you can still do things in a quality fashion. The only way you can “deliver” a product more quickly with “crappy” code is to simply shift development costs from before to after some arbitrary release date. Sadly, this is the current state of affairs in most of corporate America—it’s not specific to IT.
Alot of the problems we’ve faced recently stem from a lack of basic integrity in business today. Hopefully we will see the folly of always managing for the next quarter and get back to the point where leadership strives for real, long-term, ethical gains.
We could not create reliable requriements, we got agile We could not create good programmers, we invented code completion, intellisence and automatic refactoring and the invention is still going on.
A wise man said that we should not be angry on the management for doing bad decisions about our code. They have the companies best intrest. A bad program today might get them an affair tomorrow. If the program is deliverd in two weeks the developer is unemployed and the company bankrupt. Look at facebook, there wasn’t a craftman ner the code in the beginning, but they got customers.
So, please be a little humble about salesmen and managers. They pay most of our salary.
We could not create reliable requriements, we got agile We could not create good programmers, we invented code completion, intellisence and automatic refactoring and the invention is still going on.
A wise man said that we should not be angry on the management for doing bad decisions about our code. They have the companies best intrest. A bad program today might get them an affair tomorrow. If the program is deliverd in two weeks the developer is unemployed and the company bankrupt. Look at facebook, there wasn’t a craftman ner the code in the beginning, but they got customers.
So, please be a little humble about salesmen and managers. They pay most of our salary.
Sorry Bob I think you missed an important point about ‘drag’ – when the drag of keeping up a velocity becomes to much, management scrap projects and start again with a new ‘version’ or a new ‘greenfield project’ and the whole cycle repeats it’s self.
When the whole world (business and society) is modelled on ‘just in time’ supply, why do you thinking people are going to pay more upfront when people (management) only work for their yearly bonus or promotional prospects…
Let me add some color to the world of black and white.
Like I argued with Alistair Cockburn the other day, we need a well-defined Dirty Development methodology, or more precisely, an ordered set of practices that we drop as business pressure increases complete with reasons why certain things should be dropped and the sequence in which we should do it. This way people would know that it’s Ok to drop, say, formal requirements documentation as long as you have Fitness tests intact, or it’s Ok to layoff the QA department (if you have to) as long as you have automated tests in place, but not the otherway around.
Of my last two jobs, in the first, during an appraisal I was marked down for writing “elegant code”. In the second I was marked down for spending time improving the quality and productivity of the developer community within the whole company, rather than just churning out lines of code.
The first was a mid-size software company, the second a top tier investment bank.
I really hope you are right, but I don’t think Nico is barking up the wrong tree either.
Good stuff as always. Management never forces me to write crappy code. It’s my job to do that. Or not. :)
I think both impressions are correct. The total number of programmers will almost certainly continue to grow. There will be growth in both the number of expert software craftsmen as well as the number of crap coders. Indeed, even if the percentage of coders who are expert craftsmen grows, it’s very likely that the absolute number of crap coders will increase.
Sad. But probably realistic.
Yet I very much agree with Uncle Bob’s imperative for greater code quality. The existence of crap is no excuse to ignore the very real benefits of quality. Furthermore, the distribution of code is uneven. Quality code is more likely to be important code, crap code is more likely to be unimportant.
Consider written language. The volume of examples of poor uses of written language has exploded exponentially over the last several generations. Does that render Shakespeare, Dickens, Twain, and Faulkner irrelevant? If I span a creek using a 2×6, does that invalidate the value of the Golden Gate bridge?
In my experience, Josuttis is right. Especially in a time of belt-tightening, the notion that a company is going to let you spend your time learning the latest and greatest coding techniques and training other developers in these latest and greatest techniques is ridiculous. So the premise of the Uncle Bob argument is flawed, because the formation of this legion of “professional developers” will not satisfy the “business’ need for speed.”
Also, the Uncle Bob argument seems to assume that “quality code” relies on these latest and greatest principles. I think you need to take a step back and realize that most companies are still running on mainframe COBOL backends, while this “quality code” is the pretty user interface. The reason the backends don’t change is because they just work. And they also aren’t written with this month’s favorite development methodology. So the assumption that quality code relies on the latest alphabet soup of principles is wrong.
In my experience, Josuttis is right. Especially in a time of belt-tightening, the notion that a company is going to let you spend your time learning the latest and greatest coding techniques and training other developers in these latest and greatest techniques is ridiculous. So the premise of the Uncle Bob argument is flawed, because the formation of this legion of “professional developers” will not satisfy the “business’ need for speed.”
Also, the Uncle Bob argument seems to assume that “quality code” relies on these latest and greatest principles. I think you need to take a step back and realize that most companies are still running on mainframe COBOL backends, while this “quality code” is the pretty user interface. The reason the backends don’t change is because they just work. And they also aren’t written with this month’s favorite development methodology. So the assumption that quality code relies on the latest alphabet soup of principles is wrong.
It looks like everybody is talking about creating software – be it quality code or complete crap. What about maintaining crap software? Lots of people have to deal with huge mountains of crap being constantly pressured for new features instead of nice refactorings and being a good craftsman does not help much because in this case copy/paste and following cargo cults does really seem as a quicker way of doing things. I am not advocating for anything, just trying to look at things from a bit different perspective.
I think Liam makes a good point; employers don’t value quality, period. Some say they do but their actions speak otherwise. They are looking for a quick fix, long term is not important. And I also think that Phil Nash makes a great point that managers (and even other crappy developers!) act as if your not doing your job when you strive for quality in new and existing code. While you’re being reprimanded for craftsmanship, Fast Eddie is whipping out crap code and getting praised. This is a real and widespread and while personal integrity is essential, managers and coworkers can stifle craftsmanship by their attitude.
As far as time/money goes, poor quality code is much cheaper and faster in the short term. And it seems that getting a feature to market as quickly as possible is the priority even if its coded like a prototype. It’s VERY rare that a manager is concerned with the long term. As an experiment I’ve often wanted to write a feature in the worst way I could but in the shortest amount of time and see what the reaction would be. I guarantee it would be favorable in most organizations. Reprimanding craftsmanship and rewarding crap is a serious problem!
We can change ourselves but how do we change these organizations and their managers? I really think that should also be a real high priority of the craftsmanship movement.
I think you misunderstood one of Nico’s key arguments, and that is at the heart of the discussion here. It is not crappy code that is cheap, it crappy developers. Developers are often seen as a commodity resource purchased by management, and supply/demand is driving price down with too little regard to quality. This makes crappy code an inevitability, a fact of life we must cope with. Therefore, successful development practices of the future will be those that accept a large part of the team write crappy code, and adapt to that, minimizing the cost/risk they add to the system, and making best use of the few key experts that can do better. The prevalent view at the moment, with ideas such as software craftmanship, is that we should train all developers so they write code like experts. We have been trying the ‘education’ strategy for 30 years or more, and although a proven success where it happens, the trend is more frequently to replace the expensive experts who can educate with cheaper developers who will just write code without asking questions.
I still believe the craftmanship agenda is important. The experts need to understand how to take the state of the art forward. For those pockets of excellence that survive, they still need to find ways to excel. However, the reality is far too often we are dealing with non-technical managers who still believe you solve problems by throwing manpower at projects (oops) and Nico’s call makes a lot of sense from this perspective. It is not so much that we praise crappy code, but accept it is going to be a fact of life and look for how we can best manage it, and mitigate its risks. Where are the key places to apply ‘best practice’ if we can cover only a small portion of the project-space?
The problem is that in software, the product quality in terms of craftsmanship, is not directly “seen” by the final costumer. They see the product working, they don’t see the code. So managers, in general, have the misconception that code quality just influences developers and not the costumers. which is wrong because, even though the code quality seems transparent for the costumer, its costs in time of development, that is charged to the costumer, and the costs in bugs, influences them directly.
Crap code has always been around, will always be around. It is a part of human nature no more or less than the desire to attain a new height in efficient, elegant code.
It’s no different than the blog/wiki/twitter/myspace/facebook movement. Sure, there are people out there that want to put in the hard yards to write the next Pulitzer prize winning novel, and for every 1 that succeeds, 1000+ try and fail, but that’s a infantesimal fraction of the number of people that blurt out their thoughts, opinions, and drivel as fast as their fingers will type; spelling and gramatical errors part-in-parcel.
Worrying about code craftmanship is worth no more concern than authors worrying that there’s no point writing books because everyone can just drivel online to reach massive audiences. The simple fact is that there will always be people that respect and value quality. But there’s no point bitching just because “everyone” doesn’t have that same respect.
I was recently asked “What is Quality?” and my answer was simply that “Quality is delivering what the customer wants.” It’s not about what they “need”, or what they “say they wanted.” (From day 1) It’s that by the end of the project they can confidently say you’ve delivered what they are happy to use. That is what quality means to “me”, and Agility is a tool I use to accomplish that. I use Clean Code principles to try and provide value where I can, and self gratification that I can accomplish something better and faster than before. But that alone isn’t the end-all of my quest. I seek customers that hold my efforts in praise and come back. Quality is a badge that is earned by putting in the hard yards and making every effort to deliver what will make customers happiest. Just remember that the customer includes the people providing the investment.
My $0.02 “drivel” ;)
Over the years, I have seen the company I work for go from a place where engineering would not ship a product until they felt the code was of a high level of quality to one where Time to Market is king.
I was recently in a meeting where a relatively high level manager complained when QA actually wanted to test on a real prototype device prior to launch.
QA was worried that some of the assumptions put forth by the product team were highly risky and they wanted to minimize the risk by testing on a “real” device and not a similiar device that was modded to act like the new product.
Add in the global economic meltdown and you have even more pressure to do things on the cheap.
And many companies believe that it does make business sense to slap things together and throw them out the door….......
Hi Bob,
I immediately signed to the “Manifesto for Software Craftmanship”. I have changed working place from about 2 weeks and I’m facing exactly the crappy code problem that you have described here. I fully 100% agree with you. In my precedent work place I was working in Milan within (in my opinion) a highly productive, high quality and in some way “homogeneous” team; but the company doesn’t fully understood the potential and hard work that my team was doing and some stupid “political” problems started to rise; so the result was that one of my “preferred” moved in other companies, as after them I did. But I’m discovering than in this company developers, managers and etc doesn’t no nothing about code quality(and in general about software engineering)!!!. I’m very very sad about it… because this company is a very big (and successfully) one that I thought they have a high quality standard but I seeing that they are of “Josuttis’s Party”... they are giving to me exactly the same (IMHO absolutely not valid ) arguments: “here the time required by the business staff doesn’t permits us to have a good quality and bla bla bla”. The irony is that I’m analysing a crappy program(that MUST go in production) that no one knows how it works and practically the effort will be much much higher….
If you folks will forgive an observation from a Non-tech Craftsman:
The conflict in which you find yourselves ensnared is neither new or unpredictable. Since (at Least!) the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the concept of craftmanship has been under pressure from the demands of “the market”. The central problem is when the consumer of a good or product is either unable to discern or uncaring about the quality of the product s/he is purchasing AND there is an abundance of inferior, but still serviceable options to the quality product.
Historically, the Very Best practitioners of such a craft manage to carve themselves a commercial niche catering to that shrinking segment of the market which is willing to pay more for the best. The rest become cogs in the machine….(think textile workers vs. Quality Tailors).
The other model is the Unionization of ALL labor, either through a Guild which certifies The Craftsmen ( Doctors, Lawyers, Educators, Diamond Cutters…) and is able to enlist The State to encourage or require that their standards be upheld…..OR the more common (and less effective ) Trade Unions ( AFL-CIO et.al.)
Good Luck.
You folks have a fight ahead of you
I agree with AlisdairM.
Software craftsmen are rare and highly differentiated individuals. Their value is immeasurably greater than their salaries and related expenses. Hiring large numbers of them in one place is next to impossible.
Crap programmers and crap product managers are cheap readily available fungible resources. You can hire them by the boatload sight-unseen and outsource their provisioning if you like. They come with certifications of minimum competence excreting code. With adequate training a few of them may become software craftsmen themselves. Left to their own devices they will sink or swim which is just fine for most businesses as long as they produce some immediate value and don’t rock the boat.
” ... Low quality code is not cheaper; it is vastly more expensive … “
Where are the numbers, Uncle Bob? This kind of argument will continue until someone can put some solid, irrefutable numbers against all of this; and in a way that is accessible to decision makers: http://skepticabin.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/the-great-microsoft-imposed-development-culture/.
>Unfortunately, at least where I work, those of us who consider ourselves professionals, and try to maintain a level of craftsmanship are finding ourselves more and more outsourced. We are finding that the code we are getting is pure crap. The level of expertise demonstrated in the code that I have seen is abysmal; it appears that the developers have recently completed a 6 week course in Java. My attempts to encourage best practices have been met with disdain and an attitude that I have no idea what I’m talking about.
It would be interesting to know what people think is quality code, crap code, best practice, etc.
Mr. Smith, the problem is that there are no irrefutable numbers as they are situational, there are however irrefutable models. It is has long been determined, not only in software field but in many others, see Managing the Design Factory that the earlier defects are removed the less the overall cost of developing and maintaining a product. Professor Khaled El Emam has researched, developed and tested predictive economic models that show The ROI from Software Quality. A more recent, 2009 versus 2005, cross industry model that shows that investing in quality and learning leads to superior performance see Stephen Spear’s Chasing the Rabbit.
By the way, just because there are these irrefutable models and or numbers does not of itself insure adoption of a practice, technique or methodology. As proof I submit:Both of these publications show the need and/or irrefutable benefits of improving quality, yet neither resulted in wide-spread adoption within the development community or the businesses that use the services of this community. Note that this is true of all industries as Mr Spear has shown in his book, so for me this is a basic human problem and we know that we can change.
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I propose an axiom: The marketing and support people want the code to be buildable, just as much as the software developers want it to be marketable and supportable.
That leaves us with “so how much do they want it?” and “what will they do about it?” as more interesting questions.
In introverted organizations with siloed departments, they don’t want it very much. The introverted point of view is “if everyone else worked harder, my job would be easier” which is true and useless. If departments are competing, then they don’t want it much at all (the enemy of my enemy). Still the degree of desire is mutual.
In badly-organized orgs, they want it very much but they don’t know how to connect the desires together.
In an agile organization, these three concerns have a forum in the “whole team”, which should result in better releases of better code to a more appreciative audience with decreasing support costs. When they don’t result in improvements, then the whole team concept is where things have fallen down.
Introverted organizations (departments, teams, companies, etc) are good places for things to fall apart.
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I think Bob forgot to think about globalization. What if developers become 2 or 3 times cheaper than previously thought by the management. They have more to learn than to think bout craftman ship. In this light Nicos arguments are a sheer fact.
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It would be interesting to know what people think is quality code, crap code, best practice, etc.
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bulshi*t, in most part of the world you’d be lucky to deliver on time. Companies (Especially american/indian/chinese firms) dont pay for quality code. Developers should not be held liable for under resourced projects. If they ask for it, give them the crap they ask for, they deserve it. “Just make it work” (Ha yeah that’s what I’d do exaxtly)
Let it burn (If they didnt pay for it, dont give it. It wouldn’t be appreciated)
I agree with Liam, developers tend to overlook things. Once you are done with white and black box testing, you demonstrate it to would-be users, quality is the last thing developers check. There is however, room for changes. I like this article and the information I gathered from all the replies.
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If that perception is based on time to first delivery (for example) and that is quicker through clean code than through crappy code they will not press for crappy code. It is down to professionals to maintain the quality and the momentum that creates.
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interesting point of view on crap code, although i do agree that some standard should form when it comes to writing better code.
I immediately signed to the “Manifesto for Software Craftmanship”, which I just discovered.
I believe most developers are not familiar with the concept of Technical Debt and how procrastinating refactoring will only slow you down more and more.
I so much hope your vision of the future is the right one…
well.. first 10x for the “software craftsmanship”.. good info :)
i am a developer and i must say that when i get an off the clock project i work my ass off to create high quality but under the clock its hard.
corporate don’t care about that.. they just push for a deadline… so, i give them a complete working solution
Crap code just isn’t worth it. Even if it takes you much less time to write, its going to cost you much more down the road. And the solution is not a DSL of any kind.
interesting point of view on crap code
thanks for it.. as well i think DSL is not the way to do it
I think it really depends on the developer, I see a lot with quality ….. from virility ex
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but that all attempts to improve quality would be short lived and followed by a larger drive to decrease quality even further.
I completely agree with your theory. I also believe that low quality is more expensive that high quality. If you just look at the cost of the materials you won’t understand it, but if you look at the consequences that low quality have, you would wonder. Don’t look just the cost of produccion but the entire process.
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We do not need to much developers producing to much code – we may need few developers producing the right code …
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In an era where quality has disappeared not just from programming, but from everywhere it’s nice to see someone putting out some positive values.
Our return to quality is what will actually turn around our economy whether that’s coding healthcare whatever.
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It would be interesting to know what people think is quality code, crap code, best practice, etc.
Uncle Bob – I agree with your thesis that developers will ultimately veer toward developing higher quality code. I think this is a natural product of market forces which will render uncompetitive the low quality code producers (which will be ultimately rejected for its inefficiency in an environment which favors faster, more stream-lined code). As bandwidth providers start charging a premium to the heavy bandwidth users, high quality code (that emphasizes professionalism and craftsmanship) will be the winner for its greater efficiency in utilizing the precious bandwidth. So, I agree that Jossutis will ultimately be proven wrong.
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His claim that crappy code is inevitable is based on the notion that crappy code is cheaper than clean code, and that therefore businesses will demand the crap every time. But it has generally not been business that has demanded crappy code.
In an agile organization, these three concerns have a forum in the “whole team”, which should result in better releases of better code to a more appreciative audience with decreasing support costs. When they don’t result in improvements, then the whole team concept is where things have fallen down.
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We have strived for clean code in out literary sites, such as our author and mystery novel content sites. However, sometimes the need to get a site up and running supplants the desire to have the most cleanly written code. Thanks for the post.
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I predicted that he was about to turn the tables on everyone and ringingly endorse the craftsmanship movement.
love this post! keep it up!
Clean code is very important. Thansk for bringing it up.
Search optimization often goes hand in hand to implementing clean code on a particular website. Inferior or convoluted programming or code often leads to slower web response time, cluttered cache, and therefore a lower search ranking for the website. So, as more Internet companies become conscious of achieving the best search engine optimization for their ecommerce or general content site or to ensure the best email marketing, they will naturally implement more advanced code.
We have tried to implement the highest quality code on our websites, within the confines of budgetary restrictions and the desire for fast speed to market. Thank you for getting this discussion going.
We have sought to use better code on our consumer product and personal finance sites, but realize the challenges in the context of driving ROI from our web properties
People always say the want quality until you tell them they have to pay for it; then no one really cares.
I agree that software developers will be working together to create a discipline of craftsmanship, professionalism, and quality.
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For the most part, those in position only wants to see the bottom line. For them it seems that getting things done quickly is the best way. Most don’t have the clue what goes inside – so it doesn’t matter what code it is…until things happen, then they blame :(
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Amen to the comment, “Praise copy and paste”! Now, if I could only get some of my staff to remember that too!
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Pretty short sighted of companies to focus on the quickest option. I would find a company who shared your view that quality code is the cheapest option in the long run.
Unfortunately, at least on our credit score and credit report sites, the desire for speed to market often overrides the goal of clean programming code. As we develop our credit score scale sites, we will strive to improve the programming (for clean code sites). thanks
crap code? Who’s been reading my code and writing about it without telling me? ;)
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Enjoyed reading this even though I can’t say that I understood it all!
Good read I agree with you that would be a nice future to see.
“I see a future of Clean Code, Craftsmanship, Professionalism, and an overriding imperative for Code Quality.” That is exactly what I thought of after reading your article.
“developers don’t value quality because their employers don’t value quality”. These words strikes me. Well i think they should because quality goes cheaper everyday.
It’s definitely all about the developer! Very interesting take on crap code.
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His conclusion, delivered with a lovely irony, was the the copy-paste solution was more maintainable because it was clear which code belonged to which version.
Hi, Uncle Bob This is a very interesting article. I agree that there’s a lot of crap code being written. I also think there’s a certain amount of truth to Nicolai’s thesis, that “we are all ruled by marketing and that businesses will do whatever it takes to cut costs and increase revenue, and therefore businesses will drive software quality inexorably downward. “
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You have to wonder where some people get their coding knowledge. Seen some pretty crappy code myself over the years.
Wordpress 3.1 as a content management system solves many of the poor code problems/convolutions of early versions. As the developers continue to refine the CMS, the code will get progressively more clean. thanks for starting the conversation
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On our classified ads site, we’ve tried to incorporate clean code techniques. We will strive to hone and develop the code as our resources improve through increased site traffic in the classified ad market, although until then we may have to initially veer toward faster code implementation over code quality. Thanks for the informative post.
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Interesting counter to Josuttis’ argument that crap code is inevitable based on a cost calculus by businesses that will demand the cost savings inherent in cheaper code. Your idea that crap code will cost more in the long run might be true, but from a conservation of cost perspective, businesses are likely to take the cheaper code route at least in the early going. Good post.
Thanks for the post, i find it very useful.
in the end, everyone bows to results. if crappy code breeds chaos, then ultimately quality will move back in.
in the end, everyone bows to results. if crappy code breeds chaos, then ultimately quality will move back in.
the technical XP practices may not be the best solution to resolve this type of problem, and lets not forget codes always evolve.
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We strive for good code in our webpages, although sometimes the need for expediency causes us to waver in our dedication to clean code.
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I think business will always have an impact on the quality of software. However, in some cases it can be positive, as quality is in the end important for businesses as well, long term….
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I think business will always have an impact on the quality of software. However, in some cases it can be positive, as quality is in the end important for businesses as well, long term….
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Interesting blog post, using quality or crap code will solely depend on the developer point of view, but quality for me i think should be valued, I’m not much in technical aspect when it comes to computers software and hardware but I enjoyed reading this blog.
I must confess that as I read your comments on Josuttis I flipped the bozo bit. I flipped it on Josuttis. Low quality is always driven out of the market place eventually. Low quality breaks trust between buyer and seller. Once broken it takes a long track record of quality to recover. Take a look at General Motors. I would claim the opposite: Quality is inevitable.
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Uncle Bob – Consistent with your thesis that the historical trajectory of website development suggests ultimately that developers will take a craftsman-like approach to their craft or trade is how other professions have developed throughout history. Metalcraft, artisanship and woodworking all began in a rough, utilitarian fashion, but refined the skill and quality of their workmanship over time. I think we will see the same with website design and development. Thanks for starting the discussion.
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We will strive to hone and develop the code as our resources improve through increased site traffic in the classified ad market, although until then we may have to initially veer toward faster code implementation over code quality. Thanks for the informative post.
Its cool article about Crap Code Inevitable? Rumblings from ACCU :)
I agree with you that the solution is to design our systems so that they don’t require an army of maintainers slinging code. Software developers should work together.
A future where large software systems are engineered by relatively small teams of craftsmen developing clean codes is the way to go.
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I agree with you that the solution is to design our systems so that they don’t require an army of maintainers slinging code. Software developers should work together.
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Too much code has been an issue for a long time. We need to become more efficient at our coding.
I do think it’s inevitable, although only time will tell. We shall see what happens in the very near future.
I predicted that he was about to turn the tables on everyone and ringingly endorse the craftsmanship movement.
I agree with you that the solution is to design our systems so that they don’t require an army of maintainers slinging code Software developers should work together
It most possibly is not inevidable, but as thing progress more we should be able to tell which track morea less.
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I think you’re right when claiming crappy code is “vastly more expensive, even in the short term”. But it’s easy to write tests that make crappy code pass. So crappy code can be made to look cheap.
And it’s difficult to test the tests, to prove that the tests will weed out the crappy code.
But I doubt adding a layer of indirection (ie. DSL) will increase code quality. I predict a DSL, any DSL, will eventually be maintained into a general purpose language, but with only one purpose, the application it is embedded in. At that point (or possibly even before), maintaining the DSL will demand more effort than maintaining the application.
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Any update on the issue of these crappy coders?
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I think you’re right when claiming crappy code is “vastly more expensive, even in the short term”. But it’s easy to write tests that make crappy code pass. So crappy code can be made to look cheap..
The premise of Nicolai’s keynote is very short-sighted since the long-term ongoing cost of supporting poor quality and documented software far exceeds the benefits of the shorter development cycle. Not a good trade-off.
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After seeing considerable scholarship on the SEO effect on web sites employing crap code vs. those using clean code, we ran an A/B split test of similar optimized sites, one employing clean code and the other crap code. While other variables may be involved, the SEO optimization results showed that the clean code site had a higher search engine ranking than the less clean code site.
Interesting counter t? Josuttis’ argument th?t crap code ?? inevitable based ?n ? cost calculus b? businesses that will demand the cost savings inherent ?n cheaper code. Y?ur idea th?t crap code w?ll cost mor? ?n th? long run might b? true, but fr?m ? conservation ?f cost perspective, businesses ?re likely t? t?k? th? cheaper code route ?t le?st ?n th? early g??ng. Good post…
“But the solution to that is not to give up and become one of them” YES you are right but still who can stop the massive wave of crappy coders?
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We have tried to implement high quality code on our websites, within the confines of budgetary restrictions, technological feasibility and the desire for fast speed to market. Thank you for getting this discussion going.
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Interesting you said that craftsmanship was the “next big thing”™ that would capture the attention of our industry for the next few years, driven by theperfect skin reviews business need to increase velocity. (See Martin Fowler’s blog on Flaccid Scrum) In short, we are on a trajectorybuy caralluma towards a wen hair care reviewshigher degree of professionalism and craftsmanship.
Good post, and still relevant now.
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I think coding needs to be treated more as an art or something you take pride in while doing it.
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We have sought to dedicate ourselves to software craftsmanship on our sites. Much of the added care to our code comes with our increased aptitude with site design. The added benefit of the clean code is better SERP. Thanks for beginning the conversation.
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From the perspective of a code purist, clean code is part and parcel to the aesthetics of the web site; hastily put together or jumbled coding is like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs vs Johnny Newtron to a cartoonist. We strive for more artful code in our sites, agreeing with Mr. Bob that the code as an art form should be the goal of web design.
My one big problem with software developers is: Theydon’t lok at their product from the user’s perspective. With the lack of rich and detailed documentation software has become an expensive time consumer for the users. Definitions and Helps are unintelligible and assume the user knows as much as the developer!
Then again, its not always the software developers task to do that. Most of the time there is a team in between the developer ant the user that is doing that. Developers these days are just told what to do.
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” I see a future where team velocities increase while development costs decrease ” This is a very optimistic way of looking at things, but unfortunately it is less likely to really happen in my opinion…
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It is not just that crappy code is cheaper. It also has to do with the technical knowledge of the programmer and how much pride he has in his work.
Very nice, really good discussion.
Agreed, this code is crap. Thanks for telling us.
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Inspired by the blog, we ran a quick A/B test on one of our commercial sites with identical content but one with cleaner more stream-lined code and the other with more garbled script (we ran a basic script clean in CS4). We found that the clean code site was ranked sooner and achieved a higher SERP. So, based on this quick test, we can vouch for Mr. Bob’s thesis.
Hey Bob, great post. I totally agree that bad code is bad for everyone. It’s the same in every industry though – every man and his dog wants to get involved without being a true ‘craftsman’, the result being a poor or sub-standard service/product. Terry – WiFi Bathroom Scales
Hi Uncle Bob. Great article. the crappy programmers are hired cheap and come with little to no certifications. Mercola
if the economic times were more positive, these programmers could leave and therefore cost the business money. It is a sad truth that the technical debt will end up costing the business in the future. CleanseSMART
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You can definitely see your expertise in the work you write. The world hopes for more passionate writers like you who aren’t afraid to say how they believe. Always go after your heart.
You got to the heart of it.
the coder industry is just like everything else there will always be good and bad,
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Clean code is essential to the aesthetics of the web site. We strive for more artful code in our sites, agreeing with Mr. Bob that the code as an art form should be the goal of web design.
Software developers do actually work together in many circumstances. It is a lot easier for us developers, coders etc to work together once our own heads are out of the way so to speak. Liked the post and info at any rate.
Clean code is essential for SEO, I really like to see a clean code when I working to optimize a website and not spend hours to understand how it works. mystery shopping customer experience management
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Breaking news….crappy code gets crappier. I am not sure if that is even a word. the fact is, if you build a business on a source code that you cannot manage, it will fail.
What is the bottom line with any source code? Does it work and can you manage it? one of the most difficult thing that you can tackle as a software engineer is debugging messy code. If it is orderly and makes sense, then fixing problems is much easier.
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I agree with you totally, efficient and clean code will prevail, but I believe it will take time. The industry is growing and evolving, and this phenomena mirrors other professions as well. Self regulating industries usually become a “free for all” during the infancy stage, and as it matures, the industry usually evolves into a well respected, organized and highly regulated entity. Right now I believe that programming is just past its infancy stage. Thank-you for sharing. Pete
Great post! Nice and informative, I really enjoyed reading it and will certainly share this post with my friends.
Thanks Bob for such a great post. I’m agree with you. I’m also not agree with Nicolai’s argument.
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The emergence of the software craftsmanship movement is an interesting topic. It’s a shame I missed the keynote speech two years ago, but this article gives me some idea of your argument, which seems persuasive.
Thanks for sharing it with us
The emergence of the software craftsmanship movement is an interesting topic. It’s a shame I missed the keynote speech two years ago, but this article gives me some idea of your argument, which seems persuasive.
Thanks for sharing it with us
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The emergence of the software craftsmanship movement is an interesting topic. It’s a shame I missed the keynote speech two years ago, but this article gives me some idea of your argument, which seems persuasive.
Thanks for sharing it with us
Even though this tendency which you describe is getting stronger and strong after all the companies are not only trying to cut the costs and increase the revenue but if there is a chance for them to find quality software solution which will help them they will certainly go for that.
We have run a number of A/B tests comparing clean code with more expedient crap code configurations. We have found that the increased site speed due to the cleaner coder has some increase in SERP. We agree with Mr. Bob’s premise that code is an art form and we should strive for clean code as a goal of web design. We will be rewarded with a faster loading site and, accordingly a higher SERP
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I really like this statement “I see software developers working together to create a discipline of craftsmanship, professionalism, and quality similar to the way that doctors, lawyers, architects, and many other professionals and artisans have done. I see a future where team velocities increase while development costs decrease because of the steadily increasing skill of the teams. I see a future where large software systems are engineered by relatively small teams of craftsmen, and are configured and customized by business people using DSLs tuned to their needs.” The only thing is I don’t believe this is going to be possible in the near future. Some day, yes maybe, but still I think we need to grow more to reach that point!
Wordpress through its versioning system actively works to solve many of the poor code problems of the early versions. As the developers continue to refine the CMS, the code will get progressively more clean. thanks for the interesting blog.
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You’re right in saying that it’s the developer who’ll have to take responsibility in the end. Thanks for such useful info.
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Outsourcing some the code work can save some time.
More and more people are entering the field at younger and younger ages. Software develop will take a giant leap in the next decade.
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Uncle Bob – I agree that developers will in time will begin to implement higher quality code. I think this is a natural progression as the initial start-up costs of a new venture are absorbed, and developers push out higher quality sites. As websites begin to pay more for expanded bandwidth, there will be a premium placed on cleaner code sites. So, Jossutis will ultimately be proven wrong.
Thanks,
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Uncle Bob, really great info as usual! Codes are great, but only if used by the right hands. Else, you know what nightmares that can lead to!
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Not only software, anything with the quality brought down brings down also the whole business. Wise developers will focus on the quality and the long term gain will be theirs.
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Interesting ideas! Craftsmanship could really be the next big thing in software industry. And of course, much time and talent are needed to achieve this.
I believe that do a job takes the same time if you do it right or just try to be faster and do it in a not good way, and more, if you do really a bad job you’ll be probably called to do it again! So, make it right, be professional and at the end of the day you’ll be even faster!
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As a developer, you want to have quality over quantity however if you’re the employee and your employer values time and more on quantity, then what would you do? follow what’s you’re asked to do as long as its working and bug-free. clients don’t usually crappy codes and redundant contents. That is where a good project management comes in. They are usually taking Leadership Courses in UK to further enhance their management and leadership skills .
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Bad code means a ton more testing and maintenance.
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